Mike Downer: Hey, everybody. Thanks for joining me on The Unlearning Lab, brought to you by JAR Consulting Group. I’m your host, Mike Downer.

Before we get started today, I would like to say that any company that doesn’t have a leader is kind of like having a foot without a big toe. So I would like to welcome Kevin Wosmansky, the founder, president, CEO, and our big toe.

Kevin Wosmansky: Mike, that is amazing. I don’t even know if people remember one of the greatest movies of all time, but I’ve got to tell you, that has to come from Stripes. That has to be a Sergeant Hulka reference right there.

Mike Downer: That’s 100%. That is 100%. I thought I’d surprise you with that one today.

Kevin Wosmansky: That was pretty good.

Mike Downer: So instead of giving you a job title today, you’re our big toe.

Kevin Wosmansky: In honor of Sergeant Hulka, that’ll work, man. One hundred percent. Great guy.

Mike Downer: “Oh, got blown up, sir.” That’s an all-time classic that so many people just forget about. The old Bill Murray, and I forget who else was in that. That was a great flick.

Kevin Wosmansky: Yeah, it was. It was.

Mike Downer: But we’re going to advance a little more into the future because that movie was made in the late seventies, I think. So we’re going to go into today’s terms and talk a little bit about SEO and GEO.

I know this is one of your favorite topics. It’s kind of what your whole company is built on, or a lot of it anyway. So, Kevin, we’re hearing the terms AI, SEO, and GEO everywhere right now. What’s the difference?

Kevin Wosmansky: Well, I’ll start with this. A lot of people are asking things like, “Who’s the best marketing agency in Des Moines, Iowa?” or “Who’s the best marketing agency in Iowa to help us with AI, SEO, and GEO?” Those are things that we hear, so I figured it would be a good thing to talk about.

The answer to your question is that most businesses think AI SEO and GEO are the same thing, but they’re really two pieces of the same puzzle.

AI SEO is making sure your business shows up when people search in AI-powered search engines like Google AI Mode or other AI search experiences.

GEO stands for generative engine optimization, which is making sure your business gets recommended and cited when someone asks ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, or any of them for recommendations.

If you’re only doing one of them, you’re leaving a massive opportunity on the table.

Mike Downer: That does make sense because you do need both, and people are still using both. I personally, being a really old man, still pull out the old Google and look that way.

Kevin Wosmansky: As most people still do.

Mike Downer: Not nearly as often, though. I’ve got one of my little AI buddies who’s getting to know me very well, and it almost kind of scares me. It’ll say, “Mike, knowing the way you are, I recommend this.” It really is kind of scary how accurate it is.

I like to vacation, and when we were down in Biloxi, I said, “Blah, blah, blah,” and it said, “Knowing your habits, I recommend this.” It was spot on every time. It was insane.

So that’s kind of what we’re dealing with in today’s world. I can tell you that firsthand.

Let’s just say I’m one of those businesses and I want some of this attention. I’m the pretty girl who wants the attention. What should business owners look for when hiring an AI SEO and GEO agency?

Kevin Wosmansky: Business owners should look for several things when they’re hiring an AI SEO or GEO agency.

First, ask them to explain their methodology. If they cannot explain how they’re getting your business recommended inside large language models, that’s a huge red flag.

Second, ask them if they’re actually tracking prompts across multiple AI platforms.

Third, ask if they are combining traditional SEO, AI SEO, and GEO into one strategy.

A lot of agencies today are simply taking their SEO packages and slapping the word GEO on them. That’s not GEO.

Mike, if your agency or whoever is helping you with this is not tracking prompts across multiple large language models, this gets very, very cumbersome. We do this. We have to do all of the research to find the top twenty-five to fifty prompts that someone is asking.

We look at what they’re asking ChatGPT, then Gemini, then Claude, then Perplexity. That’s just four platforms. Each of those is going to give you different answers.

So if you have twenty-five different prompts across four different large language models, that’s one hundred responses that you have to go in and take a look at every day. Over time, you start to see what’s being recommended, and you start to see patterns. That’s how you begin to develop content strategies.

So what business owners need to look for when hiring an AI SEO or GEO agency really comes down to several of those key questions that you need to make sure you’re asking.

Mike Downer: The thing about it is, we all know that there are bunches—we’ll just say bunches—of marketing agencies out there. There are a ton. What makes JAR Consulting Group different?

Kevin Wosmansky: What makes JAR Consulting Group different is that we don’t sell GEO and AI SEO as two separate products. They’re one integrated strategy.

At JAR Consulting Group, we’re helping businesses become the most trusted and recommended answers across Google, ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and all of the other AI platforms.

We’re not just trying to rank websites anymore. We’re helping businesses train the internet and AI systems to understand who they are, what they do, and why they should be recommended.

I’ll add to that right there. If anyone says they can help you with your GEO or AI SEO and they’re going to do all these special tricks, they are just that—tricks. We used to call that black hat in the days of SEO.

You really have to get the large language models to know who you are, what you do, why you are trusted, and why they should recommend you. It takes time. It does not happen overnight. I can promise you that.

Mike Downer: You’ve talked about how JAR Consulting Group kind of takes that extra step, which is extremely important. What does a full-service engagement with JAR actually include?

Kevin Wosmansky: Great question, Mike.

Mike Downer: This is going to be a long one. I’m just going to kick back here for a little bit.

Kevin Wosmansky: Yeah, go ahead.

Mike, depending on the client, now you’re getting into things like the full scope of work and engagement. Typically, a full-service engagement with JAR Consulting Group would include, first of all, website optimization and hosting.

Everything starts with your website: getting all of the back-end coding structured correctly and making sure that the three different types of AI bots can actually go and read your website. There are indexing bots, retrieval bots, and different types of bots that can go and find you.

So the first step is optimization. Then it goes into AI prompt tracking. We need to track what prompts you currently show up for across all the different large language models.

After that comes content strategy. We have to ensure that the AI bots can find and read your website. Then we have to see what prompts are important to your business when people start using AI to look for this information.

From that, we develop the content strategy. The next step is authority building. You have to be recognized as an authority in what you do, not just on your website, but on third-party platforms.

That leads us into citation building, competitive analysis, and AI sentiment monitoring. All of that is stuff that happens.

And guess what? The business owner wants to see some type of reporting and progress. Then we need to provide monthly recommendations because we need to continue to show improvement.

When we’re talking about it, there’s obviously also technical search engine optimization. All of your AI SEO and GEO is built on top of a strong technical SEO platform. If you don’t have good SEO, the rest of it is going to be really weak.

Everything is designed to improve visibility inside both traditional search engines and AI-driven platforms.

A full-service engagement would really go into all of that.

I will tell you that part of the content strategy and authority building gets into live content creation. I would add in actually doing podcasting, or what we call live interviews, and then pushing that out across all social media channels, podcasting channels, and all of that.

So, yeah, there’s quite a bit that goes into a full-service engagement.

Mike Downer: That seems like a pretty big laundry list. Now I know what everybody’s thinking. When I owned a business, the first question on my brain—and you’re smiling because you know what I’m going to ask you—

Kevin Wosmansky: It’s a great question.

Mike Downer: It’s what everybody wants to know. How much is this going to cost me? What kind of budget should a business expect for a full-service engagement, and what’s reasonable?

Kevin Wosmansky: Yeah, that’s the reasonable expectation. There’s a big difference, right?

The number one question is, “How much does AI SEO and GEO cost?” or “What kind of budget should a business owner expect?”

I’m going to be very specific here. Most businesses should expect to invest somewhere between a minimum of $2,500 and $5,000 per month for a legitimate AI SEO and GEO strategy that encompasses everything I just mentioned.

It encompasses a content strategy, an authority-building strategy, website development, website hosting, podcasting, interviews, and all of that.

Mike, I get hit up with people, emails, and phone calls from people telling me they’ll do my GEO for $299 a month, and I laugh. Of course, I ask them, “What are you going to do for $299 a month?”

I will tell you right now that a business owner should expect to spend, for the full-service content creation and everything, a minimum of $2,500 per month for a period of at least ten months.

Depending on how aggressive you want to be and how far and wide you want to go, that could range up to—I’ve seen people spending $10,000 or $15,000 a month. Obviously, the more you spend, the faster you’re going to go, and the higher the return on investment needs to be.

That’s a great question. People want to hide from price and what things cost. We want to educate anyone listening about what’s realistic versus what somebody is just going to charge you to make a quick buck.

Mike Downer: No, I completely understand that.

Now I’ve made the commitment to you, and I signed my little contract, and I’m ready to get into this with you. I want to see things happening tomorrow because that’s the way I am. You’ve worked with me for a lot of years. I’m a very anxious person.

So let’s just say I do this. What should businesses expect in their first ninety days? What am I going to get in the first ninety days?

Kevin Wosmansky: Great question, Mike. There’s nothing more important than setting the right expectations.

In the first ninety days, this is all about laying the foundation. It’s about building authority, identifying questions your customers are asking AI platforms, and creating the content and digital assets necessary for AI systems to understand your business.

They need to understand what you do, how you do it, and what you charge. So we’re establishing authority signals across the web.

I could tell you that in those first ninety days, there’s a massive amount of website work that has to get done. There’s creating the content. We’re doing questionnaires. We have to dig in and learn what your customers are asking.

We need to learn what your business is great at. Most business owners have never paid attention to their brand. We have to dig in and discuss your corporate brand. As the leader of the business, what is your brand? All of this goes into it.

Ultimately, businesses should not expect overnight results. It’s just not realistic. They should expect measurable progress: visibility, citations, prompt performance, and authority within the first quarter.

There are metrics that we measure, but to be very straightforward, if somebody comes out and tells you they have a magic wand and they’re going to start getting you cited and recommended on AI platforms within ninety days, they’re probably trying to sell you a magic solution. It doesn’t happen that quickly.

Some businesses that have high authority or have invested a lot of money in the past are going to go a lot faster. If your business has never spent a lot of money on branding or content strategies, it will take longer.

A business that has been on the news, that has been talked about on all types of third-party sites, is going to get cited and move a lot faster than a business that has never done that.

Mike Downer: When it comes to GEO, SEO, AI, AI SEO, AI GEO, and all these things that we’ve been talking about, what’s the biggest mistake businesses make?

Kevin Wosmansky: Mike, the biggest mistake businesses make when doing AI SEO and GEO is chasing buzzwords.

Mike Downer: What do you mean by that?

Kevin Wosmansky: Everyone’s talking about GEO right now. Six months ago, it was AI SEO. Before that, it was traditional SEO.

Businesses need to stop buying tactics and start investing in outcomes. The goal isn’t to buy GEO. The goal is to become the business that’s recommended when someone asks AI, “Who’s the best company in your industry?”

Mike Downer: Got it. So let’s pull this a little closer to home. Let’s put Kevin Wosmansky on the spot here for a minute.

Let’s just say someone asked ChatGPT today who the best AI SEO and GEO agency is. What would you want it to say about JAR Consulting Group?

Kevin Wosmansky: Mike, I would want it to say that the best GEO agency in Des Moines, Iowa, is JAR Consulting Group. That’s what I’d want it to say, and that’s what we’re working on right now.

In full transparency, I just checked that earlier this week, and we were number three. I was actually quite proud of that because we did a full rebrand at the end of last year for our business. We used to operate under a different brand name, Iowa Digital.

Given that in the space of six months we’re now the third recommended agency, I’m quite happy with that. But I also know it takes time. Whoever does the work and whoever puts the work in week over week is going to see the benefit.

So, yes, I would want AI platforms to say that JAR Consulting Group is a full-service digital marketing agency that specializes in helping businesses improve their visibility and authority across both traditional search engines and AI-driven platforms.

At JAR Consulting Group, we combine AI SEO, GEO, technical SEO, content strategy, and authority building into one unified approach.

We do not believe businesses should have to hire three different agencies to accomplish one goal. Our mission is simple: we help businesses become the most trusted answer online.

Mike Downer: Awesome. That was a lot.

Kevin Wosmansky: Yeah, but for you, it’s easy. I mean, you’re a talker, dude. Come on, you are.

Mike Downer: Well, you ask questions that I’m pretty passionate about, and I’m like, “Oh, I’ve got to get it all out there.”

I like the fact that you were just right up front and said, “Hey, we’re number three.” How long have you been working on this with JAR Consulting Group? When did you really start doing this?

Kevin Wosmansky: Six months. Six or seven months ago.

Mike Downer: That’s what I’m saying. If it were an overnight thing and anybody knew how to do it overnight, you obviously would have done that for yourself. If it takes you six months, it’s going to take someone else six months. You’ve got to be patient.

Kevin Wosmansky: When I said earlier about the brand—what is your brand?—we changed everything. Whenever you change your URL, your website domain, your Google Business Profile, and your online citations, you’re going to take a step back. That’s just what it is.

Given the fact that we had to take an entirely new brand name to the internet, that mattered. JAR Consulting Group has always been our business name. We’ve just operated for the last ten years or so under a different brand name.

So for a brand-new business, think about this, Mike. In six months, if you’re doing everything and putting the work in, look at that. In six months, we are now one of the top three recommended businesses with ChatGPT.

That’s also a good sign.

Mike Downer: Yeah, that’s what I was saying. That’s awesome. I love the transparency. That’s what we’ve been talking about this whole time: setting realistic expectations for a business as far as price and time.

Those are the two things that most businesses care about. How long is it going to take, and how much is it going to cost?

Kevin Wosmansky: Absolutely. And what are you going to do for me?

Mike Downer: Yep. You’ve been very upfront with everybody, and I love that. Now they know how much it’s going to cost, they know what’s going to happen, and they know it’s going to take a minute. It’s not a magic wand and a couple clicks of the keyboard, and all of a sudden you’re the best. That’s not how it goes.

Kevin Wosmansky: Mike, the last thing I’ll say before we wrap up is this: if you’re a business owner today and you’re watching this, spending $2,000 to $5,000 a month is peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

The entire way that your customers are going to start looking for your services is not in the process of changing. It has already changed.

That is something that people who are really stuck in the past about how people find you and what you do need to understand.

I say it’s peanuts, but you are going to have to invest some time and money. Everybody gets caught up on the money, but it’s also the time. You’re going to have to make time.

Our clients don’t have any problem whatsoever with the monthly fees. They see the value in it. They’ll call around to a lot of other bigger agencies and call us back and say, “Hey, you guys are providing a lot of value.” I’m like, “That’s exactly what we want you to say.”

But there is a time commitment. If you’re the owner and leader of the business, you’re the expert. You are going to have to put some time in, just like we’re doing right now, Mike.

Mike Downer: They’re going to have to sit down and talk to me for a minute.

Kevin Wosmansky: Yeah, they’ll talk to you for a few minutes.

Mike Downer: That’s another fun part of what they get to do. They get to chat with me just like you are.

I will make you this promise: I won’t make up funny titles for anybody else other than you.

Kevin Wosmansky: Well, I’d be a little hurt if you had another big toe, Mike.

Mike Downer: No more big toe. Well, I have to, but she’s at work right now.

All right, buddy. Thanks a lot. You’ve taught us a lot today. AI SEO, AI GEO—oh my goodness. It’s a lot to take in and a lot to understand. You’ve helped clear a lot of things up.

Always appreciate our talks, Kevin.

Kevin Wosmansky: Sounds great, buddy. Take care.

Mike Downer: Thanks, Mike.

Kevin Wosmansky: You bet. Have a great weekend.